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beeper collars/ gen training questions
Last Post 12 Aug 2009 12:15 PM by coolcreekretrievers. 13 Replies.
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Eric SUser is Offline Pheasant Egg Pheasant Egg Send Private Message Posts:1 Eric S
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15 Jul 2009 12:17 PM

    Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and also new to upland hunting (new meaning I've never done it). But I have a 12 week old lab at home, and I'm dying to get him into the fields when he's ready. I'm working with basic obediance stuff right now and he seems to be a good dog with some hutning potential. ASAP I'm looking to buy some quail to released winged so he can catch them in an enclosed area, basically doing this off the advice from an upland dog trainer and to get him excited about birds.

    From there, and in time, I'm going to get him out in the field.

    So, should I be whistle and beeper collar training him? I know labs are flushers and are probably not the ideal breed (as say pointers are) but I do know they can be sucessful upland dogs. Thanks for any help, and if you guys feel I'm not taking the right approach, please let me know.

    Thanks,

    Eric

    BobUser is Offline Master Hunter Master Hunter Send Private Message Posts:550 Bob
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    15 Jul 2009 06:23 PM
    I believe obedience is number one. I want my dogs to give me instant obedience at all times. Therefore I have my dog trained to 3 sets of commands Whistle, Hand and Voice. In the field Whistle and Hand is about all I use. Voice is for yard work and getting them into their kennel and so forth. I don't believe in beepers, I have never had good luck finding birds with one on the dog. I would be working it on obedience now, not to hard, but letting it getting use to the commands. Take out for field runs and just let it play for now. If it finds a bird and flushes it make sure you praise the daylights out of it for doing that. Remember at this age of the dogs life, make everything fun, it should all be en enjoyable game for it......Bob
    My Dog And I Are A Team. We Practice Every Day. I Always Trust Tony, He Knows More Than I do.
    PorknbeansUser is Offline Master Hunter Master Hunter Send Private Message Posts:542 Porknbeans
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    16 Jul 2009 08:46 AM

    Eric, first off Labs are great upland dogs. I've hunted behind several and they are a pleasure to watch and be around. Second, this is a great question and I'm glad to see that you are thinking ahead.

    I know we have kind of asked this question in different ways so let me try and give you some background help from other posts on the old forum:

    http://www.gamebirdhunts.com/forum/...IC_ID=6470

     

    http://www.gamebirdhunts.com/forum/...IC_ID=4241

     

    http://www.gamebirdhunts.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1925



    I'm sure there is more info out there, but that should give you a start.

    More directly to your question: You can incorporate a whistle with your training, but if you are going to do that, be consistant. Don't use it one day and then not the next. The dog won't know what to do and probably learn to ignore it. The beeper collar is a preference for you and your hunting group. I've been with people that just refuse to hunt if you run your dog with a beeper, others could care less. Regardless, put it on the dog and let her run with it on before you switch it on. Let her wear it for a couple of outings for a couple of hours each time. That way she will associate it with fun and running. Then when you switch it on, the sound won't be so traumatic and will just be another "thing" coming from the "fun box".

    Porknbeans Grand High Pooba of the Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
    ggburkeUser is Offline Pheasant Egg Pheasant Egg Send Private Message Posts:14 ggburke
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    16 Jul 2009 11:11 AM
    An e-collar is a precaution not a training tool. It should only be used if the dog is in danger. I believe that the dog should be well along on its training before the collar is introduced. A dog has to understand what is expected of them before the behavior can be reinforced.
    Using an E-collar also depends on the disposition of your dog. My dog was almost ruined as a hunter because of an e-collar. My dog is timid… everywhere but the field. I sent my dog to a professional trainer, a cookie cutter program (all dogs the same). I got her back she would not quarter, or flush. She would just follow behind you. I believe that the trainer was over zealous with the button. I own a collar but have never turned it on, I belong to a hunting Club they prefer the dog to wear one, that’s fine.
    As for a whistle, I use a Roy Gonia, with a pea; they are small and have good distance. I forget which one, but get two; they freeze in the fall/winter. I use it all the time, playing ball, working with dummies or walking in the woods. Taught my dog two whistle commands: Two blasts look at me, trill get back here (COME). The whistle breaks their concentration so the command can get through. Use the whistle in combination with voice command to begin with. Now at a year and a half she is learning hand signals.
    There are two kind of hunting dogs one that obeys you out of fear and the other hunts because it makes you happy. I have the second, she is never going to be a grand champion, but we have a good time, get our limit and come home safe, that what it’s all about. Every trip to the woods is a learning experience for both you and the dog.
    BobUser is Offline Master Hunter Master Hunter Send Private Message Posts:550 Bob
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    16 Jul 2009 11:48 AM
    Something I forgot, I feel the voice in the field is a" lost cause." Your voice gets blown away by the noise of the, wind, weeds, Etc. Therefore the whistle is the tool to use. I agree with ggburke, I use the same whistle. I have 4 of them. 1 in each of my vests and a back- up hanging in the SUV. in case one freezes or breaks. Yes they are that important to me.....Bob
    My Dog And I Are A Team. We Practice Every Day. I Always Trust Tony, He Knows More Than I do.
    BertUser is Offline Pheasant Chick Pheasant Chick Send Private Message Posts:51 Bert
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    16 Jul 2009 12:16 PM
    Eric,
    First you have to train yourself to be consistent in all of your actions. You will only confuse the dog if you keep changing commands. You have to make sure that any other family members that come in contact with your dog use your same commands.
    Always keep your training sessions limited to 10-15 minutes and end on a positive note. Go slow so that you don't confuse the dog. I agree with whistle and hand signal training but disagree with a comment above about an E collar.
    Do yourself a favor and look up a training program named Smartworks by Evan Graham. I switched to this program for my current dog and could not be more pleased.

    Bert
    NRA Life Member, NRA Cert. Personal Protection Pistol Instructor, NRA Cert. RSO, Class III RSO/KCR
    llewellinUser is Offline Happy Puppy Happy Puppy Send Private Message Posts:102 llewellin
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    17 Jul 2009 05:13 PM
    bob do you have a whistle command for WHOA???
    BobUser is Offline Master Hunter Master Hunter Send Private Message Posts:550 Bob
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    18 Jul 2009 03:44 PM
    Good question LLew, I use my whistle this way. (1) one short toot, means "look at me". This is for hand signals. (2) two short toots means "Come" instantly. (1) one long blast means "whoa" and don't move until told. I use this mainly so I can catch up with him. When he is working a bird. If the bird get jumpy and flushes, I want to be within shooting distance.....Bob
    My Dog And I Are A Team. We Practice Every Day. I Always Trust Tony, He Knows More Than I do.
    llewellinUser is Offline Happy Puppy Happy Puppy Send Private Message Posts:102 llewellin
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    24 Jul 2009 11:47 AM
    for me the whistle works very similar as yours. one toot for look at me for hand signals or change direction. i use whoa as a verbal command. two toots is means "come" instantly as u said. i also have handsignals for come, sit, stay
    HillbillyUser is Offline Master Hunter Master Hunter Send Private Message Posts:706 Hillbilly
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    24 Jul 2009 12:01 PM
    Well said Llew. A guy just left a dog for me to train I asked him if he uses a whistle and he was like why he come's when I call him 5 minutes later when the dog was on birds he knew what I was talking about.
    Life's Short Play Hard
    BobUser is Offline Master Hunter Master Hunter Send Private Message Posts:550 Bob
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    24 Jul 2009 02:44 PM
    Llew I'd strongly advise you teach your dog to whoa with the whistle. There will be times in the field you will want him to stop and stay where it is. There are many reason for this, so while your dog is still young and wants to learn. Id teach it.....Bob
    My Dog And I Are A Team. We Practice Every Day. I Always Trust Tony, He Knows More Than I do.
    llewellinUser is Offline Happy Puppy Happy Puppy Send Private Message Posts:102 llewellin
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    25 Jul 2009 11:03 AM
    i will definitely consider doing it. my dog has a verbal command, a hand signal, and a whistle comman, for everything except whoa which is only voice.

    i know people whose dogs do not know whoa. imagine that?? i don't think i would be taking my dog hunting much if at all until they knew it. it seems like whoa is just such an important command if not the most important. if you can't control your dog you are asking for trouble
    BobUser is Offline Master Hunter Master Hunter Send Private Message Posts:550 Bob
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    26 Jul 2009 05:51 PM

    I agree Llew, I hunt by busy farm roads andI  I cannot tell you the times whoa has saved Tony from getting hit. He is a city dog with a fenced yard . He is trained not to go in the street here, but not out there. I just cannot get that message to him...Bob

    My Dog And I Are A Team. We Practice Every Day. I Always Trust Tony, He Knows More Than I do.
    coolcreekretrieversUser is Offline Pheasant Egg Pheasant Egg Send Private Message Posts:35 coolcreekretrievers
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    12 Aug 2009 12:15 PM

    I am sorry to hear that your dog was almost ruined, but it was not the e-collar that did it, it was the person you had him/her with. A e-collar is a great training tool, and just that ,one of the many tools that are out there if used the right way. You just cant put a e-collar on a dog and start to push buttons. you will have a wash-out .There are many steps to conditioning a dog to a e-collar. A e-collar is ONLY used to reinforce what the dog has already learned. I have been training dogs for 20 years and have always used a e-collar and never had a wash out or a dog that feared me. It does not matter if a dog is soft or a high roller. I personally own both kinds, The one that is very soft probably the softies dog I have ever trained is a AKC MH and is running the Q in field trials  and the hared headed, hight roller is QAA in FT and is running the open in FT. I have trained them  both with a e-collar and they do it not out of fear or to please me they do it because the love to train, hunt, trial.

     

     

    www.coolcreekretrievers.com
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