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 Sporting Dog Training
 E-collar Question
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ggburke
Pheasant -------

37 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  10:24:00  Show Profile
If a young dog (11 months) has been trained (a month ago) to the e-collar, can I just start using it or is there a re-adjustment period. I recently joined a hunting club and thought it is not required it is recommended.

porknbeans
moderator

USA
943 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  10:31:01  Show Profile  Visit porknbeans's Homepage
To my knowledge there is no adjustment period. Once your dog knows the collar, she will know what it is all about. I barely use mine with my dog, but just putting it on helps get her head in the game. Now, every time she sees it she knows she is going to go and have fun and gets really excited. Good luck and use it as a tool, not a weapon.



Porknbeans
Grand High Pooba of the Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
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ed hall
Hunting Legend

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  11:42:57  Show Profile  Visit ed hall's Homepage  Send ed hall a Yahoo! Message
I don't use mine hardly ever to Pork but my dogs are the same waythey'll sit in front of me while I put it on them. The only thing I use mine for is mostly here and a little on whoa (for backing) that statement is right use it as a tool not a weapon.

Hillbilly
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ggburke
Pheasant -------

37 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  14:04:25  Show Profile
I waver on it. It is a great tool if the dog gets fixated and is running into danger. I don't much care for the idea of it.
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ed hall
Hunting Legend

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 10/28/2008 :  14:13:56  Show Profile  Visit ed hall's Homepage  Send ed hall a Yahoo! Message
It's saved a dog or 2 of mine on rattle snakes.

Hillbilly
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bobeyerite
Hunting Legend

USA
183 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2008 :  21:58:32  Show Profile
I had my dog traumatized with an e-collar, when I sent him to be Pro-trained. I'll never use a pro-trainer again. He sent him back to me as not trainable and shaking at the sight of a e-collar. I gave him some TLC and put a e-collar on him and he finally got to where he'd hunt again. I cannot stress enough use it only when all else fails. I can work my dog for weeks and never use the collar. But he even knows if it is on or off. He has proved that to me. Now my dog loves his collar like the other guys, it is fun time so put it on and lets go. He is now 9 so he has his collar for years. I did get him fully trained and I did it like I said with tender loving care and he came out fine. I learned a lot and would not be afraid to do it again


I did put the e-collar on him and let him wear it several hours a day. I wanted him to learn he could wear it and it would not hurt him. Today I wanted him in the car after a short hunt. He wanted more hunt, so he left me at the car and went back hunting. I called him 2 times he just kept hunting. I put the e-collar on 1/2 the dial goes 0-1/2-1 and so on. I can barely feel it on tests it is very light. But after 2 nicks he yelped and came running to me. That is how sensitive he is to the collar.

"FIND THE BIRD TONY"
Watching a Brittany work is like watching poetry in motion
http://www.gamebirds.com/forum/]
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Don
Happy Puppy

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2008 :  19:35:08  Show Profile
E-collars are very easy to use,,,,,and very easy to abuse. Keep in mind that the e-collar teaches nothing unless your doing avoidence training, as in snake proofing.

The commands must be taught without the e-collar but let the dog wear it. Just don't turn it on and don't carry the transmitter. After the dog understands the command, it has the command overlayed with the e-collar. The setting on the collar should be as low as you can get a response from the dog. Start low and go up a bit at a time and nic the dog at each level. Your looking for the dog to give a sign that it felt the collar, it should not yelp! What you should see it the dog simply move its head trying to figure out what happened.

At that point you can give the dog the command immediately followed with a nic on the collar. If the dog beats you to the command, don't nic! If the dog doesn't do the command, nic, nic, nic till the dog does what it's supposed to do. Think of it like using a check cord and teaching "here". Give the command and give a tug starting the dog toward you. So long as the dog is coming in, leave it alone. If it stops, give it another tug toward you. Substitute the nic for the tug.



Squirt

Edited by - Don on 11/11/2008 19:36:31
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ed hall
Hunting Legend

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2008 :  21:41:17  Show Profile  Visit ed hall's Homepage  Send ed hall a Yahoo! Message
I thought it was you Don I was looking for you on gundog forum today. Hows your season going?

Hillbilly

Edited by - ed hall on 11/11/2008 21:45:04
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Don
Happy Puppy

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2008 :  09:14:19  Show Profile
Really bad year for birds again, worse than last year. Would like to find some for the pups but haven't yet. No long trips yet either tho! Thinking about Juntura area next month.

Hows it going with you?

Squirt Bodie

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ed hall
Hunting Legend

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2008 :  11:15:24  Show Profile  Visit ed hall's Homepage  Send ed hall a Yahoo! Message
If you can get to John day we could do a hunt not working so I can go during the week.

Hillbilly

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Don
Happy Puppy

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2008 :  11:19:33  Show Profile
Next month work? Had to pay ins and property taxes this month.

Squirt Bodie

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ed hall
Hunting Legend

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2008 :  12:09:47  Show Profile  Visit ed hall's Homepage  Send ed hall a Yahoo! Message
Ya it'll work fine not alot of birds but I know were there's a few coveys of chukars and some mountain and valley quail them are some nice looking setters

Hillbilly

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ed hall
Hunting Legend

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2008 :  12:11:55  Show Profile  Visit ed hall's Homepage  Send ed hall a Yahoo! Message
We've done pretty well on ruff grouse and not bad on chukars for it being a poor year your right worse then last year.

Hillbilly

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Don
Happy Puppy

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2008 :  12:57:55  Show Profile
I just checked. get paid on the 26th. Anytime after that is fine, even week days, retired! Those are first year dogs, I expect some wreacks!

Squirt Bodie

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ed hall
Hunting Legend

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2008 :  13:05:23  Show Profile  Visit ed hall's Homepage  Send ed hall a Yahoo! Message
I don't break all my dogs so it's not a problem most of my dogs are 3 and younger. Their all whoa trained but I get wrecks sometimes to. We've got 40 ruffs this year and a handful of blues plus all the chukars and quail so even my young dogs have had alot of action. You were right a year ago about remote launchers don't know how I ever trained with out them before. Lets plan for the first week of december I'll be done elk hunting then.

Hillbilly

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llewelinsetterhunter
Hunting Legend

623 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2008 :  13:08:27  Show Profile
really nice setters don

08-09 season totals


pheasant(2)

deer(0)

duck(1) woodie hen

woodc0ck(0)

turkey(1)Jake



"the only difference between obama and osama is a lil BS"
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Devlin
Happy Puppy

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2008 :  00:01:54  Show Profile
Opinions about e-collars are a little like body orifices...everybody has one. E-collars, when properly introduced and used, are an amazing tool that helps to develop a dog to a much higher level than is possible without one. The e-collar is NOT a tool to teach a dog anything...likewise, it is NOT a means of disciplining a dog...it is a tool to reinforce what the dog already has been taught. It is also a means of communication between the handler and the dog when the dog is out of voice range.

If you don't like the idea of an e-collar, then don't use one. But if you ARE going to use one, then be sure you have learned how to use it before ever putting it on your dog.
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Norse51
Happy Puppy

USA
19 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2008 :  19:27:13  Show Profile
I have been reading this post for some time now and it seems that some that have added to the post have either had a bad experience with a pro or have bad communication with the pro on how to deal with the end product. Bobeyerite seems to have had a bad experience with a pro. Well to swear off them is a bit silly, I would bet that most of us have had a bad result from a mechanic but most of us still go to them to fix our cars. Not all pros are equal and all professionals make mistakes whether they are pro dog trainers of accountants. The job of a PROFESSIONAL is to fix that mistake at least to the satisfacion of the client or at least try.

I am sure that everybody's intensions or to help each other, but if the advise is not on the same page or even from the same book it is confusing. Like Devlin saying that the collar is a form a communication is totally correct if you are useing the Rick Smith HuntSmith system. I would bet that sense ggburke has a lab and is in MN the dog was trained using some form of the Rex Carr-Lardy method, which is really the gold standard for retrievers and works well for obdience dog as well. These two methods are about 180 degrees apart, both are good for what they are trying to do.

The bottom line is ggburke call your pro about the issues you are having. That is what you paid him or her for. You paid for a service and the pros knowlege going forward. It doesn't mean that you sould call the guy every day for a month without giving him a little something, but he should answer questions and guide you through how to work your dog. If the dog is not doing what you expected that person sould be the first to know. Be realisic if the dog was there for 6 weeks it is not going to be a complete hunting dog. 3-4 Months it should hunt pheasants.

CALL YOUR PRO!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark
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llewelinsetterhunter
Hunting Legend

623 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2008 :  08:28:37  Show Profile
whats wrong with not going back to a pro trainer it seems bobeyerites dog is a really gud dog who cares if he no longer uses pro trainers...

are u a pro trainer norse???

08-09 season totals


pheasant(3)





"the only difference between obama and osama is a lil BS"
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ggburke
Pheasant -------

37 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2008 :  13:24:42  Show Profile
I did have a bad experience with a Professional trainer. Some dog are not geared to high pressure training. See my other post “Lab that won’t flush”. He blamed his inability to train my dog as some genetic defect in the dog. This was not the truth.

I took it upon myself to train the dog. I taught the all the basic, but the dog was not getting enough birds, so I joined a hunting club in Hudson,WI. They strongly suggested the use of an e-collar. They made a good case for the use of the collar. A cute story about a young retriever that broke away disrupted another hunt, causing bad feelings and added expense for its owner. I purchased one, my dog wears it, but I do not turn it on. She has been trained to it so, she knows what it does. As her confidence grows she may need it, but so far has responded to my commands.

Because I live in the city, if I was training my dog again, I would take my dog to a trainer for gun training and basic retrieving. They call it a puppy program. Then I would join a hunting club and get her on birds. The key is to get them on birds. My dog is just a year old and is becoming a good hunter and has impressed my friends that convinced me I was not strict enough to train her myself. I learned a thousand dollar lesson, I thank the lord that there was no permanent damage to the dog and we can enjoy the wood and fields together.
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bobeyerite
Hunting Legend

USA
183 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2008 :  22:46:19  Show Profile
ggburke, I am glad you pulled your dog out of it as I did. It just goes to show a lot can be done with TLC and simple training methods. Cute I think story about Tony and his e-collar. As you people know Tony knows he must wear his collar to go for a run or hunting. I had a Hernia Repair Operation the other day and was laying on the couch recuperating. Tony's e-collar was on top of a high table. There sat Tony on nose high at the table top. The only thing on the table was his Collar and Remote Control. I said; "Sorry pup, I can't do it right now soon I promise." He came over to me laid his head on me and then laid down next to me. Who said they can't talk and make their feelings known.

"FIND THE BIRD TONY"
Watching a Brittany work is like watching poetry in motion
http://www.gamebirds.com/forum/]
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llewelinsetterhunter
Hunting Legend

623 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2008 :  12:23:54  Show Profile
mi dog gives hugs during and after the run to whoever took her running and she goes running while we walk for about five-six miles and this is four days a week and 2 days she is hunting

08-09 season totals


pheasant(3)





"the only difference between obama and osama is a lil BS"
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Devlin
Happy Puppy

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2008 :  22:40:18  Show Profile
I say again: if you have basic philosophical issues with using an e-collar, then don't use one. If you have problems you believe were caused by your pro, then go back to the pro. If it's a matter of your not having adequate knowledge in using the collar, then learn how to use it before you completely screw up your dog and an excellent communication tool (i.e., the e-collar).

2008-2009 Season Retrieves:
Ducks (all species) - 37
Geese - 4
Doves - 42
Quail - 18
Pheasants - 8
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Norse51
Happy Puppy

USA
19 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2008 :  23:43:26  Show Profile
Hey bobeyerite sorry that you had to have an operation, espacially this time of year. I would suggest watching very boring tv, I had some work done on my guts last winter and got a little too excited during the Super Bowl. I thought at one point that the "inner me" was going to come out!!!


Llewelinsetterhunter, yes I am a pro. The point of my post was that both bobeyerite and ggburke paid to have their dogs trained. Having done so there is an expectation that they recieve a certain product when they get the dog back. Also that the dog should not need to be rehabbed by the owner when it goes home. Some maintance or homework yes but not the kind of self fix it jobs that it seems both of these guys where left with. That was the point of my post.

For some issues like crate training there are a lot of good suggestion and help that can be given online. There are some things that can really only be understood by seeing the dog which is why I suggested asking the pro that trained the dog, that person knows most about the animal. BUT if the guy was willing to send home a half done product then maybe he doesn't care anyway.

Like Devlin posted go back to the guy and try to get him to fix it for free, if you trust him. The bad thing is that a "training dog" (one that is in the process of being taught) has turned into a dog that is a "fix it dog" (a dog that has a problem that needs to be corrected.) I might be a good idea to find someone to evaluated the dog to find a direction to go with it. If you don't like what your first doctor says about your illness you go get a second or even a third opinion. It is really know different with dog trainers, if I have a bad problem with a dog I call another trainer or have someone else look at the dog for me. And in kind I do the same for other guys, sometimes things need to be seen through a different set of eyes to find the solution.

Mark

Good Luck
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llewelinsetterhunter
Hunting Legend

623 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2008 :  15:35:28  Show Profile
that must be awesome being a pro trainer

08-09 season totals


pheasant(3)





"the only difference between obama and osama is a lil BS"
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bobeyerite
Hunting Legend

USA
183 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2008 :  22:53:39  Show Profile
Norse51, Thank you, I am healing fine it is the pits, when the Doc. tells to go have fun hunting and then be sore for 2 days after the good time. But it is coming along soon I'll be alright. But by then the season will be close to being over.

I did have a very poor trainer. I was talked into price instead of quality. But after the experience, what I meant was, I learned how to train my dog myself. He forced me to learn and to gain the confidence in myself to do it. Now that I have it, I feel I'll never need another Pro-Trainer in my lifetime.

"FIND THE BIRD TONY"
Watching a Brittany work is like watching poetry in motion
http://www.gamebirds.com/forum/]

Edited by - bobeyerite on 12/05/2008 23:00:09
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ggburke
Pheasant -------

37 Posts

Posted - 12/06/2008 :  00:34:12  Show Profile
At the two week point the trainer was convinced the dog was genetically inferior. The thing that gets me is that the trainer was quick to throw the dog under the bus, but was reluctant to return the dog and the fee that was paid. It seems to me that the trainer used a cookie cutter approach to training, by not changing his methods or returning the dog,he reinforced the problems the dog had. I am not sure if he (The trainer) lacked the ability to change or if it was arrogance, I believe it was arrogance. I would never allow a trainer near my dog again, like bobeyerite I do not need to. Training a dog is an endless adventure. Any issues the dog has I have created and with the help of this group I can fix. My dog and I will learn and grow as hunters for the rest of our time together.
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