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david.marra
Pheasant Egg

7 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2009 :  11:47:36  Show Profile
I have a GSP on the way, he'll arrive at 8 weeks next month. Any book recommendations? Any other advice welcomed, thanks.

kmk75
Happy Puppy

USA
20 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2009 :  18:09:34  Show Profile
I asked the same question in another post...try searching "best books".


I recently read Hey Pup Fetch It Up by Tarrant and Gun Dog by Wolters. Between those two books I don't think you will need much more. But anything you can get your hands on for free from your public library is worth a read. You may get one or two techniques out of each book which will make it worth your while.


You can also try the other books by Wolters. Old school training but use what you need and tweek it a bit. Good Stuff.

Hey Pup, Fetch It Up was worth the money just for the section on "Force Breaking" alone! You may want to look into a video on "Force Breaking" scince it is one of the most important training aspects in my opinion.
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NEHUNTER
Hunting Legend

116 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2009 :  19:42:18  Show Profile
david.marra,
I am in the process of training my black lab pup. I bought "GAME DOG" by Wolters on the advice of a friend. I have found it useful but honestly am looking for something with a bit more direct instruction. He has what I need in there as far as how to but you have to search for it a bit among all the anecdotal stuff. I am looking for something with more direct instruction. I will check out Wolters book "GUN DOG" (seems like he has a lot of books with similar names) and Tarrant's book, based on KMK75's advice.I'll let you know what I if you will do like wise.

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ed hall
Hunting Legend

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2009 :  20:40:26  Show Profile  Visit ed hall's Homepage  Send ed hall a Yahoo! Message
If you want a good read that will help you understand your new pup or dog read Bird Dog by Ben O Williams it's instinctive gun dog training. Then for serious training the Delmar Smith training method. I like to toss in a little George Hickox for here training and general reference also Pointing dog journal has alot of good stuff to help. Good Luck and if you have any questions feel free to ask someone here will try to help.

Hillbilly


Edited by - ed hall on 02/16/2009 20:41:26
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porknbeans
moderator

USA
943 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2009 :  06:42:52  Show Profile  Visit porknbeans's Homepage
David, welcome to the site. I wish you the best of luck with your new pup. May you and your new buddy have many great seasons together. I'm going to cut and paste some posts (from myself and others) that we have made on this very topic.

From me:

Start with the basics in the beginning. Get your dog socialized by taking him to dog parks, walks around the neighborhood, puppy classes, etc. You want your dog to know how to be with other dogs and people so that when he sees them out hunting it is no big deal. Next, I mentioned puppy classes because I think that obedience is important. Your dog should know how to sit, stay, come for his safety and yours. You don't have to take puppy classes, but this gives the pup basic obedience with socialization. It also sets the foundation for doing things with distractions. The hunting stuff in the beginning is (for me) more about getting the prey drive in your dog to the point where he is almost drunk with enthusiasm. Take him to a field where you know (or think) birds are. Let him sniff, track, point, bump anything from birds to butterflies in the first 6 months of his life. If your dog is excited about going out and finding birds, you can mold this enthusiasm into a bird dog. Once your dog has had a chance to play and have fun for the first 6-9 months, you can begin the basics of training your dog for the field.

Don't undersell educating yourself about learning about dogs and dog training. Reading is a great way to understand them and how they are similar, and most importantly, how they are different than us. For example: dogs are pack animals and there is a definite pecking order in their world (use this to help your training), dogs want to please you (use this in training), dogs can/will make mistakes, etc. If you have the resources some great books and videos would be: "How to Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves" by Joan Bailey, "Best Way To Train Your Gun Dog - The Delmar Smith Method" by Bill Tarrant, "Gun Dog" by Richard Wolters, "Training the Pointing Lab" by Julie Knutson, "Puppy Development" (DVD) by Rick and Ronnie Smith, "The Silent Command System" (DVD) by Rick and Ronnie Smith. I can recommend all of these resources with the caveat that you must not get hung up on the dates of development in Wolters book. In order for you to be able to do this though, you will need to find an area to do it. Check out public land, parks, private land, friends, etc. Also, there is a book I recommended on training pointing labs. Although you don't have a PL, the info in the book is very good and most of the techniques can be use on any breed (for what it's worth, I've got a Brit).

However you choose to train your dog, be as patient as possible. Do not beat your dog and do not be cruel to it either. There is plenty of time for your dog to hunt, but use the first year of its life to play, learn, increase prey drive etc. At this young age, a dog isn't mature physically or mentally to handle a strict training regiment. This can/will ruin a good dog faster than anything else. Above all, as I mentioned earlier, treat your dog with love and compassion and it will pay you back 10x.

From Baretta:

Don't get hung up with the time frames illustrated in Wolters! Every dog is going to be a little different.
Next ; A GSP can be a little hard headed so be firm (as opposed to harsh or worse)
Hand signals are a little advanced but if you stick with it and use them with every obedience command the dog will recognize the hand signal when given by itself as time passes.
Try to determine a set of signals you can remember and think of them as being practical in the field. I prefer a whistle to hand signals but my lab has been tained to both. In the field the most practical seems to me to be whistle and at a distance it works better then hand signals.
Wolters shows you step by step how to do both, and many of the books PNB mentions will also be a big help.

I hope this information is helpful, there are many great guys on this forum and some real fine trainers too.

Good luck with your new partner!

From me again (specifically on Wolters):

Wolters has done tremendous, positive things for dogs and their owners. However, he has also caused tremendous harm to them as well. The books do a great job of showing in a step by step method, how to train your dog. But, they also put specific dates on when these behaviors should be taking place. Dogs are not robots. Each breed, and even further, each dog within that breed is different. Instead of having the expectation that your dog should be doing "X" by date "Y", take the attitude of Rick Smith (another top notch breeder and trainer of champion hunting dogs). When asked how long should it take for my dog to be doing "X", Rick's response is "As long as it takes".

Most importantly, your dog is a puppy with the attention span of a gnat. My advice is to use this time to create tremendous prey drive in your pup. Keep any training exercises very, very short and break them up with lots of play time. You also need to be very patient with your dog at this age. Your patience now will be rewarded with many years of good hunting later.




Porknbeans
Grand High Pooba of the Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
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Paco
Pheasant Egg

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2009 :  19:30:40  Show Profile
Training the Versatile Hunting Dog/Chuck Johnson.
Some fairly current thinking, good stuff IMO.
Especially agree with the first year development philosophy.
"THE TRAINING THE FIRST YEAR SHOULD FOCUS ON BRINGING OUT AND DEVELOPING THE PUPS INHERENT NATURAL ABILITIES." Paco

Train for Total Confidence,not Total Compliance.

Edited by - Paco on 02/26/2009 19:47:27
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ed hall
Hunting Legend

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2009 :  20:39:57  Show Profile  Visit ed hall's Homepage  Send ed hall a Yahoo! Message
Sorry I left that one out very good read and very informational.

Hillbilly

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NEHUNTER
Hunting Legend

116 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2009 :  18:02:13  Show Profile
What can you all suggest for gun dog magazines and field trial magazines? Any good ones?

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david.marra
Pheasant Egg

7 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2009 :  18:32:15  Show Profile
I've been reading http://www.gundogmag.com He's got a slew of videos on there, as well as many great articles. I got a subscription too, I think its pretty well done.

Dave
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NEHUNTER
Hunting Legend

116 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2009 :  21:13:24  Show Profile
Thanks Dave. I'll check it out.
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Bailey Blue
Master Hunter

45 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2009 :  15:33:11  Show Profile
I get the Pointing Dog Journal PDJ and I like it. They do a good job of training articles for the hunter vs. the trialer as well as stories of hunts that keep that fire going and make you dream of hunts in other states.
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NEHUNTER
Hunting Legend

116 Posts

Posted - 03/26/2009 :  19:43:44  Show Profile
Thanks BB. I'll check that one out too.
If it weren't for fishing I might go crazy off-season.
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brittany daddy
Pheasant Egg

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2009 :  18:30:51  Show Profile
The same people who put out Pointing Dog Journal put out Retriever Journal.
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BIGROOSTER
Pheasant Chick

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2009 :  10:29:42  Show Profile
Great info all. Just got a new German Wirehaired pup (first dog). This thread will help the process.
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porknbeans
moderator

USA
943 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2009 :  06:31:50  Show Profile  Visit porknbeans's Homepage
Great dog! You'll enjoy the trip of watching her grow into your buddy and hunting companion. Good luck and feel fre to post your comments and questions. We may not know the answer, but I'm sure we will be able to relate and/or laugh with you!


Porknbeans
Grand High Pooba of the Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
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NEHUNTER
Hunting Legend

116 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2009 :  07:00:22  Show Profile
BIGROOSTER
I can vouch for Porknbeans and the rest. They know bird dogs ...even if they do talk funny sometimes with their yall's and getter dones like my inlaws down in SC (just kidding.)
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ed hall
Hunting Legend

USA
557 Posts

Posted - 06/11/2009 :  09:20:17  Show Profile  Visit ed hall's Homepage  Send ed hall a Yahoo! Message
Read the book by Chuck Johnson Training the Verstile gun dog GET'R DONE

Hillbilly

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